Vespa gts 300 hpe tuning diy

Karosserie-Umbauten / Motor-Tuning!
Nachricht
Autor
GTS01
Beiträge: 205
Registriert: Di 4. Aug 2020, 20:31
Vespa: GTS 300
Land: Deutschland

Re: Vespa gts 300 hpe tuning diy

#61 Beitrag von GTS01 » Mo 26. Apr 2021, 17:34

Peter
Aber um den Polini Zylinder mit dem Originalen zu vergleichen sollte die Verdichtung bei beiden ziemlich gleich sein. Um zu sehen ob es sich lohnt auf 77mm umzubauen.( nach meiner Erfahrung kann man sich das sparen, da Leistungsvorteil bei max. 0,5 PS bei einer 32ecu wahr)

Sinnvoller wäre es aus meiner Sicht, wen man ein Kolben macht mit 75mm und 12,5-13/1 Verdichtung für den HPE Motor.( werde mich mal informieren ob es sich lohnt ne Kleinserie anfertigen zu lassen )

Benutzeravatar
zirri01
Beiträge: 1043
Registriert: So 17. Jun 2012, 09:22
Vespa: 300GTS
Land: Österreich
Wohnort: Gleisdorf / Stmk

Re: Vespa gts 300 hpe tuning diy

#62 Beitrag von zirri01 » Di 27. Apr 2021, 13:44

@Rob12395:
I mean with acceleration speed of the engine the revolutions per minute during accelerating phase.
E.g. you wrote at the beginning 7400 rpm and at the top 7900 rpm.
What do you mean with "at the top" ?
You can optimize the acceleration phase of your bike, when you adjust the cvt (vario, roller weights, belt length,...) to the peak power of your engine.
In my opinion, with ecu tuning alone without changes at the hardware increase the peak power output about 0.5PS.
The forcemaster cannot be adjusted as ideally as an ecu tuning - has already been written here.

So far, the GTS engine type before HPE is better suited for tuning in the moment.

Rob12395
Beiträge: 22
Registriert: Sa 17. Apr 2021, 19:54
Vespa: Gts 300 hpe
Land: Netherlands

Re: Vespa gts 300 hpe tuning diy

#63 Beitrag von Rob12395 » Mo 3. Mai 2021, 16:55

zirri, when i pull away from zero this is with ~6200 rpm then it goes to 5200 rpm for a sec(little dip but it happends very fast) and then directy to 7500 and then slowly to 8000 rpm at the top 130km/h.

Also when i ride like 50 kmh and i pull the gas it goes directly to 7500 and then slowly to 8000.

Not sure if the rpm meter is correct becouse i tought 7500 was max rpm for the hpe.

When installing lets say the malossi force master do you think becouse of the 1000 more rpm, it would be pulling away with 7200 rpm not sure what to expect from it. Cant wait for someone to install it and write about it.

Benutzeravatar
zirri01
Beiträge: 1043
Registriert: So 17. Jun 2012, 09:22
Vespa: 300GTS
Land: Österreich
Wohnort: Gleisdorf / Stmk

Re: Vespa gts 300 hpe tuning diy

#64 Beitrag von zirri01 » Mo 3. Mai 2021, 17:15

It means, that the engine speed limit is 1000 rpm later.

Rob12395
Beiträge: 22
Registriert: Sa 17. Apr 2021, 19:54
Vespa: Gts 300 hpe
Land: Netherlands

Re: Vespa gts 300 hpe tuning diy

#65 Beitrag von Rob12395 » Mo 3. Mai 2021, 21:55

It would be optimal if the engine immediately would make max rpm(around 8k) right? Is this then peak horsepower?

So after take off immediatly 8k rpm till the top kmh speed.

Stronger clutch springs would raise the pull up from zero rpm right? And lighter vario rollers will raise the pull up rpm also a bit and higher rpm after the pull up.

Becouse of the speedwheel it doesnt run at top speed/rpm into the limiter right now, this is at 130 kmh/gps

I also read in the specs that at 8250 it makes 17.5 kw but my rpm meter could be a bit off.

Btw your vid on youtube with the acceleration on your vespa is sick, still have that vespa? Have been riding motorcycles that can do that easily but the vespa scooter aspect just gets me. Sadly the stock isnt very fast and tuning is expensive. Mine just makes alot of noise now so it looks fast😜

Benutzeravatar
zirri01
Beiträge: 1043
Registriert: So 17. Jun 2012, 09:22
Vespa: 300GTS
Land: Österreich
Wohnort: Gleisdorf / Stmk

Re: Vespa gts 300 hpe tuning diy

#66 Beitrag von zirri01 » Mi 5. Mai 2021, 12:29

Your assumptions are correct, Rob.

I still have this Vespa, of course. A few changes are in preparation in the moment and I hope I can improve the engine performance a bit with them.

Rob12395
Beiträge: 22
Registriert: Sa 17. Apr 2021, 19:54
Vespa: Gts 300 hpe
Land: Netherlands

Re: Vespa gts 300 hpe tuning diy

#67 Beitrag von Rob12395 » Sa 22. Mai 2021, 21:36

Nice looking forward to see!

Think im going to be looking for better accelaration fase, so it makes max rpm instant. I have adjusted varios few times but without rpm meter, now i can see better whats really happening.

Im now at 13gr pulley slider, im thinking about installing polini 9 rollers or lower pulley slider weight(but how much lower to achieve optimal?) also lower vario rollers/sliders means less max speed, or is this only when going to low?

Maybe stiffer clutch spring but in my oppinio de start feels strong enough and maybe stiffer clutch pressure spring wich also raise the rpm gradiant(if im correct and not sure how much). Just changed the belt for new original so not feeling changing that :p

There is a gap of 500 rpm between pulling 8k at top speed and pulling 7500 rpm accelaration rpm.(on my rpm meter)

Also sorry for all the question but another thing, looking at (engine)tuned gts’s pull about 9k-10k sometimes 11k rpm. Is this becouse of the more hp? I most times think more rpm is more power, vespa say max hp at 8250 rpm, but what happends when its raised to 9k rpm or higher is this possible with vario tuning and not tuning the engine for more hp? And what woiuld happen?

The malossi forecemaster only raises the enige rpm limit but it does not actual pull the engine rpm a 1000 plus higher.

To many question😜

Any suggestions? Looking forward!

Also doing some modding my to my airbox more and testing it... coming soon
Zuletzt geändert von Rob12395 am Mo 24. Mai 2021, 20:46, insgesamt 3-mal geändert.

GTS-Peter
Beiträge: 3114
Registriert: Mi 15. Feb 2017, 14:33
Vespa: GTS 300 Super Sport
Land: Deutschland
Kontaktdaten:

Re: Vespa gts 300 hpe tuning diy

#68 Beitrag von GTS-Peter » Sa 22. Mai 2021, 22:03

I am very happy with the Dragy box I just bought. It's a great tool to measure your tuning improvements/downgrades. Really helps as a "good feeling" will always be just a feeling.

It's all just guessing at the moment with the HPE if you want to find "the one right setup". The engine is still very new and everyone is telling his HPE is running best, but nobody got a proof.

Mounting the KB Speedwheel and adjusting engine rpm during acceleration to peak power, adding an Akrapovic Exhaust (I mounted a Euro3 Akrapovic on my HPE and it gained incredible 0,5 HP on the rear wheel) is a good way to go if you don't want to spend the worth of half a Vespa in dubious tuning garages with questionable results.
Ölwanne mit Schauglas für GTS 300 und HPE?

https://www.buchsenfuchs.com/shop/vespa/

Rob12395
Beiträge: 22
Registriert: Sa 17. Apr 2021, 19:54
Vespa: Gts 300 hpe
Land: Netherlands

Re: Vespa gts 300 hpe tuning diy

#69 Beitrag von Rob12395 » Mi 9. Jun 2021, 18:36

Today did a dyno and here are the resuls(pics attached), 22,8 hp seems about right with adjusted airbox and malossi air filter, 13 gr dr pulley slider and remus dual flow exhuast. So no surprise but not dissapointed either.

The air/fuel ratio is to high(between 14 and 15) been told it needs between 13 and 14, engine gets to much air compared to the amount of fuel, suggestion made by the people there is to replace the malossi airfilter for the orginal airfilter.

Myself i like to give the engine more fuel, maybe with malossi forcemaster 3 and do a dyno again with it, but i heard here and there that people have said no improvement with the malossi forcemaster.

I also have modded my airbox further before the dyno, bigger airbox inlet and shorter intake pipe(pics attached) did not feel any big negatives feels quicker 0-100 kph and beyond 100 a bit slower but not sure.
Du hast keine ausreichende Berechtigung, um die Dateianhänge dieses Beitrags anzusehen.
Zuletzt geändert von Rob12395 am Mi 9. Jun 2021, 18:38, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.

Rob12395
Beiträge: 22
Registriert: Sa 17. Apr 2021, 19:54
Vespa: Gts 300 hpe
Land: Netherlands

Re: Vespa gts 300 hpe tuning diy

#70 Beitrag von Rob12395 » Mi 9. Jun 2021, 18:37

Pics
Du hast keine ausreichende Berechtigung, um die Dateianhänge dieses Beitrags anzusehen.

GTS-Peter
Beiträge: 3114
Registriert: Mi 15. Feb 2017, 14:33
Vespa: GTS 300 Super Sport
Land: Deutschland
Kontaktdaten:

Re: Vespa gts 300 hpe tuning diy

#71 Beitrag von GTS-Peter » Mi 9. Jun 2021, 20:05

Hey Rob! Congratulations.

Air Fuel Ratio: don't give too much on that on first look. How did they measure this? Where did they mount the wideband o2 sensor?

I welded a second thread to the manifold and mounted the wideband sensor close to the original position to check the AF Ratio on my HPE and found out that the engine is running pretty rich (against all assumptions)

Yes, at idle speed and with low throttle, ist running as lean as it should around 14.7 (Lambda 1.00), but at higher rpm and full throttle, the ECU gives more and more fuel, so it's more running on the rich side of the "optimum range"
Ölwanne mit Schauglas für GTS 300 und HPE?

https://www.buchsenfuchs.com/shop/vespa/

GTS-Peter
Beiträge: 3114
Registriert: Mi 15. Feb 2017, 14:33
Vespa: GTS 300 Super Sport
Land: Deutschland
Kontaktdaten:

Re: Vespa gts 300 hpe tuning diy

#72 Beitrag von GTS-Peter » Mi 9. Jun 2021, 21:10

Oh on the picture with your scooter I can see they just stick the wideband sensor to the rear end of the exhaust. No doubt they will measure lean mixture there.

You have seen my topic with the measurements I did?

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=55705
Ölwanne mit Schauglas für GTS 300 und HPE?

https://www.buchsenfuchs.com/shop/vespa/

GTS01
Beiträge: 205
Registriert: Di 4. Aug 2020, 20:31
Vespa: GTS 300
Land: Deutschland

Re: Vespa gts 300 hpe tuning diy

#73 Beitrag von GTS01 » Mi 9. Jun 2021, 22:12

Sehr schön und schon mal eine tolle Leistung. :vespa: :genau:

Der Forcmaster 3 ist ab dem Punkt eine sehr gute Idee (wen man nicht die Möglichkeit hat übers Steuergerät direkt abzustimmen 8-) ),und würde ab den Punkt auch niemanden mehr empfehlen mit Serien Einspritzkennfeld zu Fahren.

Wen unter Vollast ein afr von 12,6 Abstimmst, sollte auch noch was an Leistung gehen, und vor allem wird es haltbar und Vollast fest ;) .
Was ich am Luftfilter noch Optimieren würde, wäre ein Trichter drehen ( oder per 3d Drucker ) für den Luftfilter Schlauch, das die einströmende Luft, nicht durch die harte Kante verjüngt wird.

Sonst sehr schönes Projekt :klatschen:

Rob12395
Beiträge: 22
Registriert: Sa 17. Apr 2021, 19:54
Vespa: Gts 300 hpe
Land: Netherlands

Re: Vespa gts 300 hpe tuning diy

#74 Beitrag von Rob12395 » Mi 9. Jun 2021, 23:05

Thanks!!

Gts-peter they did put something in my exhuast to measure the a/f ratio, it would be possible that becouse of the changes to the airbox and different airfilter the ecu isnt adjusting the fuel enough. Looking at your post you havent tried another airfilter or airbox mods with that measure tool maybe if you do this you will also see it gets to lean i guess. Also why do you say don't give too much on that on first look?

This tuner also(second one) didnt see why the ecu couldnt be flashed, they adviced against it becouse they flashed the earlier model and didnt got much result. So im more and more beginning to think that flashing the ecu not possible is bullshit. Myself like the idea of the malossi forcemaster more, cheaper and its an add on product.

Gts-01 looking online i see they reccomend AFR value of 12.5:1-13.3:1 or 0.85-0.91 in lambda, why do you call the number 12,6 precisely?
Thanks for the tip i was working on that but then the induction pipe/intake pipe but didnt got it to fit for now(was looking into felocity stacks/funnels, better air flow and more compressed air)(picure attached)the original pipe was also more shaped like a funnel(picture attached)

You mean the inlet of the airbox and then the opening inside the airbox shape like a funnel/round edge wright?
Du hast keine ausreichende Berechtigung, um die Dateianhänge dieses Beitrags anzusehen.

GTS01
Beiträge: 205
Registriert: Di 4. Aug 2020, 20:31
Vespa: GTS 300
Land: Deutschland

Re: Vespa gts 300 hpe tuning diy

#75 Beitrag von GTS01 » Mi 9. Jun 2021, 23:43

Hi Rob
Ein Afr wert von 12,6 unter Vollast ist immer ein sehr guter und sicherer wert zum testen ( meiner Meinung nach ;) ), und ist schon sehr nahe am Optimum für den Motor wenn es um max Leistung geht.

Mit dem Trichter meine ich das Bild vom Luftfilterkasten ( Beitrag #70 von dir, zweites Bild) , wo der gekürzte Luftfilter Schlauch montiert ist.
Ist nicht Optimal, würde da ein Trichter verbauen anstatt es einfach gekürzt zu lassen. :bier:

Antworten